Arnel - Journey

Soul Sirkus was being financed 100% by Neal alone. It failed because he couldn't or didn't manage to get Azoff onboard to push the band. SS was bleeding money after every show. By the time neal paid the other band members, roadies, and all the other sundry persons standing around with their hands out he was left with nearly nothing from the paycheck.

GOD wrote:

Soul Sirkus was being financed 100% by Neal alone. It failed because he couldn't or didn't manage to get Azoff onboard to push the band. SS was bleeding money after every show. By the time neal paid the other band members, roadies, and all the other sundry persons standing around with their hands out he was left with nearly nothing from the paycheck.

You are correct. He could not get Azoff on board. He should have gotten Herbert to manage that band. We could be chatting about Soul Sirkus new cd and world tour right now.

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

AC/DC's been making the same album for years and it works - FOR THEM. It works for some bands but I agree with you. JOURNEY has always been about change. ARRIVAL, GENERATIONS, and REVELATION are virtually the same albums but with slightly different production values.

Manarocks wrote:

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

I know what you are saying Greg. But 95% of the fans and that is being nice would not accept Journey for doing that. They want to hear the Journey sound. To me the new sound was Neal's other band which was Soul Sirkus. They should have continued that band and who knows what would have finally happened. I understand why he did not continue that band. That was the new Journey sound but under a different name.

I can attest to the 95% remark. My Latin rhythm idea was notoriously hated. The problem is that it was misunderstood. The idea wwas to do something DIFFERENT but under the JOURNEY name. Kind of like a more media-friendly Dream After Dream effort. Oh, well.

I disagree with Soul Sirkus. It wasn't taking off and never would have been embraced by the media like the Arnel/YouTube story has been which is something that was desperately needed to bring the proper attention to the band.

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

I know what you are saying Greg. But 95% of the fans and that is being nice would not accept Journey for doing that. They want to hear the Journey sound. To me the new sound was Neal's other band which was Soul Sirkus. They should have continued that band and who knows what would have finally happened. I understand why he did not continue that band. That was the new Journey sound but under a different name.

I can attest to the 95% remark. My Latin rhythm idea was notoriously hated. The problem is that it was misunderstood. The idea wwas to do something DIFFERENT but under the JOURNEY name. Kind of like a more media-friendly Dream After Dream effort. Oh, well.

I disagree with Soul Sirkus. It wasn't taking off and never would have been embraced by the media like the Arnel/YouTube story has been which is something that was desperately needed to bring the proper attention to the band.

I like your Latin rhythm idea but your are right people would have hated it. I remeber when Journey did the Santana songs in there set in 2003 people were furious so you can imagine what would have happenned. Dream after Dream one of my favorite cd's. Neal did his Latin Rhythm with Gregg Rolie it was Abraxas Pool, another great cd.

Soul Sirkus would have taken off if management was behind it and it wasn't. No cd deal here in the US and a successful european tour. No promotion.

funny i have quite a few boots from 2003 and there are no santana songs in the set list.

in fact the only boot that has any santana songs was the warfield in april of 2003 and that was a special show where sammy hagar even joined them on stage to do rock and roll and it was touted as a 30th anniversary show. the crowd on the boot is way into it too.

iRockJava wrote:

funny i have quite a few boots from 2003 and there are no santana songs in the set list.

in fact the only boot that has any santana songs was the warfield in april of 2003 and that was a special show where sammy hagar even joined them on stage to do rock and roll and it was touted as a 30th anniversary show. the crowd on the boot is way into it too.

They did the Santana set in 2003, those songs were included after they finshed the main event tour with Styx and REO. They had Gibby Ross in the band for that mini tour. I saw them at Soaring Eagle Casino in Mt Pleasant, Michigan on September 24, 2003. The songs were Everybody's Everything sung by Jon, La Raza Del Sol sung by Steve A. and Black Magic Woman sung by Neal.
Same songs like at the Warfield show

Manarocks wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

I know what you are saying Greg. But 95% of the fans and that is being nice would not accept Journey for doing that. They want to hear the Journey sound. To me the new sound was Neal's other band which was Soul Sirkus. They should have continued that band and who knows what would have finally happened. I understand why he did not continue that band. That was the new Journey sound but under a different name.

I can attest to the 95% remark. My Latin rhythm idea was notoriously hated. The problem is that it was misunderstood. The idea wwas to do something DIFFERENT but under the JOURNEY name. Kind of like a more media-friendly Dream After Dream effort. Oh, well.

I disagree with Soul Sirkus. It wasn't taking off and never would have been embraced by the media like the Arnel/YouTube story has been which is something that was desperately needed to bring the proper attention to the band.

I like your Latin rhythm idea but your are right people would have hated it. I remeber when Journey did the Santana songs in there set in 2003 people were furious so you can imagine what would have happenned. Dream after Dream one of my favorite cd's. Neal did his Latin Rhythm with Gregg Rolie it was Abraxas Pool, another great cd.

Soul Sirkus would have taken off if management was behind it and it wasn't. No cd deal here in the US and a successful european tour. No promotion.

DAD is one of my faves, too. Fans probably would've displayed lots of hate with a Latin rhythm thing but ultimately it might've become a real favorite amongst certain fans in the same way that ROR did and still does.

I don't think management was behind SS simply because the future was too risky. Also, general fans don't know Neal Schon but when they hear him they hear JOURNEY - much in the same way that SP is JOURNEY's voice. Neal outside of JOURNEY is a recognizable and marketable solo artist but not so much as part of another band. Heck, even Bad English had to be fronted by Jon Waite in order for it to have an identifiable face! Sad considering the success that Neal had at the time.

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

I know what you are saying Greg. But 95% of the fans and that is being nice would not accept Journey for doing that. They want to hear the Journey sound. To me the new sound was Neal's other band which was Soul Sirkus. They should have continued that band and who knows what would have finally happened. I understand why he did not continue that band. That was the new Journey sound but under a different name.

I can attest to the 95% remark. My Latin rhythm idea was notoriously hated. The problem is that it was misunderstood. The idea wwas to do something DIFFERENT but under the JOURNEY name. Kind of like a more media-friendly Dream After Dream effort. Oh, well.

I disagree with Soul Sirkus. It wasn't taking off and never would have been embraced by the media like the Arnel/YouTube story has been which is something that was desperately needed to bring the proper attention to the band.

I like your Latin rhythm idea but your are right people would have hated it. I remeber when Journey did the Santana songs in there set in 2003 people were furious so you can imagine what would have happenned. Dream after Dream one of my favorite cd's. Neal did his Latin Rhythm with Gregg Rolie it was Abraxas Pool, another great cd.

Soul Sirkus would have taken off if management was behind it and it wasn't. No cd deal here in the US and a successful european tour. No promotion.

DAD is one of my faves, too. Fans probably would've displayed lots of hate with a Latin rhythm thing but ultimately it might've become a real favorite amongst certain fans in the same way that ROR did and still does.

I don't think management was behind SS simply because the future was too risky. Also, general fans don't know Neal Schon but when they hear him they hear JOURNEY - much in the same way that SP is JOURNEY's voice. Neal outside of JOURNEY is a recognizable and marketable solo artist but not so much as part of another band. Heck, even Bad English had to be fronted by Jon Waite in order for it to have an identifiable face! Sad considering the success that Neal had at the time.

Dream after Dream is one great album. I remember going to Windsor, Ont. Canada to pick up my copy since it was only a Japanese release when it 1st came out. I live in Detroit, Michigan which at the time was a 20 minutes ride from my house to record store in Canada. Your are correct some fans would have hated the latin cd. I think Neal and Gregg accompolished that with Abraxas Pool another great cd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6r5m-aNKYA

I agree Azoff was not behind Soul sirkus, I believe within a couple years they would have made a mark on the music scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3-HiyCwkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KpUyTZ976U

Enjou the clips great music

Manarocks wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Manarocks wrote:

greg wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

Maybe Blades needed to produce ARRIVAL? Neal and Jon need someone like SP to keep them in check!

To your point about reused, rehashed lyrics and riffs: there's ONE line from ARRIVAL that struck me and actually sums up the whole album. In Signs Of Life: By the way...what are you tryin' to say?"

Exactly. WTF are you trying to say?! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH for 4-5 minutes x 15 songs!

To top it off - end the song with the same outro from Who's Cryin' Now.

I'd like to see a song from JOURNEY in the future NOT reference:
Doing something in the early morning light.
Walk or not walk away (goes all the way back to The Babys).
Getting caught in any number of things.
Something spinning around.
Grace/State of grace/Saving grace/Blessings.
Facing/trials of/going through fire (despite that this theme inspired my name).

Maybe I do want Journey to sell out? I just want them to change their sound to something new, fresh, and different. Maybe a mix of Linkin Park (not the "rapping but the music") and have a guitar sound of something like a cross between 3 Doors Down and Godsmack. Nothing too heavy, just not so 80ish sounding. Neal could still throw in his trademark guitar solos and Jon could still use a hint of his 80ish style piano, just not so obvious. Maybe just enough to let people know it's Journey, but it's a new band, not a band trying to recreate what's already been done. Most may disagree with what I'd like for Journey to do (since a lot of us like the melodic rock sound,) but again, Journey was big in the 80's largely do to the creativity of coming up with different sounds (Escape and Frontiers don't sound the same, and of course RoR doesn't sound the same as those albums.)

After awhile, all of the albums start sounding exactly the same and there is really no reason to keep buying the same album over and over again.

I know what you are saying Greg. But 95% of the fans and that is being nice would not accept Journey for doing that. They want to hear the Journey sound. To me the new sound was Neal's other band which was Soul Sirkus. They should have continued that band and who knows what would have finally happened. I understand why he did not continue that band. That was the new Journey sound but under a different name.

I can attest to the 95% remark. My Latin rhythm idea was notoriously hated. The problem is that it was misunderstood. The idea wwas to do something DIFFERENT but under the JOURNEY name. Kind of like a more media-friendly Dream After Dream effort. Oh, well.

I disagree with Soul Sirkus. It wasn't taking off and never would have been embraced by the media like the Arnel/YouTube story has been which is something that was desperately needed to bring the proper attention to the band.

I like your Latin rhythm idea but your are right people would have hated it. I remeber when Journey did the Santana songs in there set in 2003 people were furious so you can imagine what would have happenned. Dream after Dream one of my favorite cd's. Neal did his Latin Rhythm with Gregg Rolie it was Abraxas Pool, another great cd.

Soul Sirkus would have taken off if management was behind it and it wasn't. No cd deal here in the US and a successful european tour. No promotion.

DAD is one of my faves, too. Fans probably would've displayed lots of hate with a Latin rhythm thing but ultimately it might've become a real favorite amongst certain fans in the same way that ROR did and still does.

I don't think management was behind SS simply because the future was too risky. Also, general fans don't know Neal Schon but when they hear him they hear JOURNEY - much in the same way that SP is JOURNEY's voice. Neal outside of JOURNEY is a recognizable and marketable solo artist but not so much as part of another band. Heck, even Bad English had to be fronted by Jon Waite in order for it to have an identifiable face! Sad considering the success that Neal had at the time.

Dream after Dream is one great album. I remember going to Windsor, Ont. Canada to pick up my copy since it was only a Japanese release when it 1st came out. I live in Detroit, Michigan which at the time was a 20 minutes ride from my house to record store in Canada. Your are correct some fans would have hated the latin cd. I think Neal and Gregg accompolished that with Abraxas Pool another great cd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6r5m-aNKYA

I agree Azoff was not behind Soul sirkus, I believe within a couple years they would have made a mark on the music scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3-HiyCwkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KpUyTZ976U

Enjou the clips great music

Two great SS songs - no doubt!