Journey.. Joke? or Not ?

How we TOOCH an when ouwa sepwhat waysahhhhh.



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Great post Frank.

Some say that this new cd will tank - however, I think that is only if you are considering American markets.

The Asian market is about to open up to them again (Arnel's following is in the big numbers - even if it is just national pride)

Journey is still very popular in Japan.

I think people might be surprised at the numbers in other countries.

I know I was astounded by the South American artists and their sales numbers.

I know these numbers do not count with the RIAA and the gold/platinum/diamond benchmarks - however each one is a nickel in the "Neal Schon Future ex-Wive's Alimony Fund"

Cat

Goddess wrote:

I just find it frustrating that people flip flop SO incredibly you know? Going from absolute HATING them - to being the biggest cheerleaders?? Makes no sense??

I can understand and respect what Frank's reason's are, and I think that is the case with a lot of people who were furious about the way Jeff and/or Jeremey were treated, but came around to thinking maybe it would work out.

Of the people who were either primarily fans of Neal's, most, but not all, seem to be guitar players themselves and they tend to eventually fall back in with Neal.

Over all of these years that I've been on the various Journey and Perry boards talking, arguing, debating, I've come to the conclusion that not all people hear music the same way. Maybe it's because they don't listen to it the same way, or maybe they just prefer different sounds the same as they might prefer different pizza toppings.

I honestly believe that the reason it's easier for some people to be perfectly happy with any singer Neal wants to put in there as long as they can hit high notes is because they don't hear the underlying deeply resonating textures and tones that make Steve Perry's voice inimitable to many of us. They just hear a note and it doesn't really matter that much to them if it's shallow, screechy, or strained, it was there and that's all that matters.

That doesn't apply to the people who didn't even like or listen to Journey until Augeri joined the band.

I liked JSS because first of all he's a hell of a singer, but also, like Frank, I thought he could lead Journey away from being strictly a nostalgia act trying to sound exactly as if Steve Perry was still there. I would have supported Jeremey in the job because he's my friend and I'd have loved to see him get a chance to live his dream. I have no feelings of that kind towards any other singer and don't care to listen to them help Neal and Jon rip off Perry's legacy.

By legacy, I don't mean just the catalog. The vocal sound of Journey, the most immediately identifiable sound of Journey, is the Perry vocal sound. When they put an imitator in there, to me they're ripping off Steve Perry.

It disgusts me that they disdain him and yet use his legacy to pay the alimony.

iRockJava wrote:

that's a great post frank.

i guess for me it's personal and will continue to be. getting involved in the forums was a double edged sword. put me in touch with some great people, great new music, great old music i hadn't listened to in a long time, but on the other side it put me too close to the dirtiness of the band that i had loved for so long. for me, the words and actions coming out of schon and cain over the last 2 years are a direct contradiction of the meaning of the music they play. don't stop believin!??!?! why shouldn't i when they throw people away like yesterday's garbage and immediately are calling the new guy the "real deal". happened first with the official announcement of jss being in the band. and now they make like the last 10 years have been a living hell and finally they have been saved and are going to new heights with arnel. of course they will. he brings a market that in the us alone is comprised by 3 million to 4 million pinoys, who for the most part, probably new nothing of journey, but now that the local boy does good they are on board. as you stated frank, one starts to say "where the hell were you in 1981, 1982 and 1983 when this band was blowing the arena circuit up". kinda makes me feel like the band is throwing me, the fan since 1978, out like yesterday's garbage too.

what maria said.....

and also i do not think they ever were as 'great' as you guys do ..so for me it is easy not to waffle
on this...i loved them when i was 'with' them -thought they were an awesome band and very talented- every member....and i had the BEST time at their concerts...but they were never my favorite band and my attachment to them and the music came THRU augeri - but the music lost it's meaning to me with the douchebaggery that went on the last few years....
so i know it is much easier for me to detach than the rest of the long time fans....
i will never flip- flop on this.....when i am done i am DONE....

Arnel sings ok, but his diction sucks. Until he fixes that, I will stick with my assessment that Journey should've just folded up and called it a career after they screwed Augeri and Soto.

Until this version of Journey cranks out top 10 hits and becomes even a third of the band they were back in the 80's, this version will forever be considered a joke to me. Really, I'm hoping they prove me wrong. I want to be the person who has to come here in shame and say, "Boy was I completely wrong!" Doubt that will happen though.

Journey, a little word of advice: Get Perry back if you want to make some major $$$. We all know that is what it's all about at this point in your careers. If it was about creativity, Jeff would still be in the band.

greg wrote:

Journey, a little word of advice: Get Perry back if you want to make some major $$$. We all know that is what it's all about at this point in your careers. If it was about creativity, Jeff would still be in the band.

And there ya go.

frank wrote:

Arnel
This is a tough subject. Arnel, while suffering from diction problems and carrying a certain third-world stigma, is arguable the closest timbre-wise to Steve Perry that the band could have ever gotten. At times, you can close your eyes and go "holy shit, it's perry". It's scary. Then, of course, you hear the diction issues and you get slammed back to reality.

Do I believe that Arnel can work out the diction issues? Yes. Firmly. An accent is something that CAN be irradicated from either a speaking voice or a singing voice. Look at any foreign actor that has played an american. Nicole Kidman, Mel Gibson, The actor that played The Agent from the Matrix movies, etc. With coaching, Arnel can ditch the accent.

-F

I'm not sure I agree with this part of your post, Frank. It's very hard, IMO, for people of an oriental heritage to get totally rid of an accent. It's usually there somewhere, under the surface. The folks from Europe and Austrailia, for example, generally don't seem to have an 'accent' when they sing. IDK, I'm certainly no expert on language, diction or anything having to do with singing. I just happen to believe that Arnel, although a very talented singer in his own right, is NOT gonna be the savior that Journey is looking for. Only one man can do that, and from what I can tell, he has no interest in going down that road again.

I appreciate your thoughts posted above, Frank. Now... lay off my boy SP, okay???

ohsherrie wrote:

greg wrote:

Journey, a little word of advice: Get Perry back if you want to make some major $$$. We all know that is what it's all about at this point in your careers. If it was about creativity, Jeff would still be in the band.

And there ya go.

They should have at least hired someone you can see over the monitor and who can pronounce the words properly. So, yeah, they're an effing joke.

Goddess wrote:

I just find it frustrating that people flip flop SO incredibly you know? Going from absolute HATING them - to being the biggest cheerleaders?? Makes no sense??

Woah, I wouldn't call what I'm saying to qualify me as a "biggest cheerleader"...unless the above statement was in reference to someone else.

While I resent the band, organization and actions of the band....the fact remains that there were good aspects to the band (maybe still are). By no means does this mean, I'm going to race to my nearest walmart the morning of the release and buy it. Hell, I dont expect to buy it at all....that would indicate support from me, where there is none.

But I'm sitting on the sidelines right now to see how this plays out. I do think that they might be able to stir things up a little, if they market this correctly. However, I also feel that a few things are playing VERY much against them, like the following:

1) Regurgitations - the album of redone tracks may in fact kill them before they get out of the gate. i still feel that a direct comparison between arnel and perry is like walking into a machinegun fight with a pocket knife. They will get slaughtered in the reviews, irrespective of how good or bad the album of original material is. That's as predictable as a full moon. Keep in mind, the rock journalists out there haven't suddenly started liking the journey that they hated in 1983. They stiill hate them. There isn't a rock music journalist that will give the album of new material a favorable review, with an amateurish cd of redos attached to it. It's just not going to happen.

2) The Pinoy crap - sorry...I mentioned this earlier in this thread. The infestation of pinoys into the fan base will be viewed as carpetbaggers by hard core fans. The fact remains that up until last year, you couldn't blindfold 5/6 of Journey's audience with dental floss. Now you can. Hard core fans in this country feel like their journey was invaded by a bunch of fucking fraud/posers....and thats the way I see it. Sad to say, but again, it's the fans ruining my journey for me.

3) JSS/Augeri firings - while this might not come to fruition.....part of me still thinks that Karma has yet to deal it's blow. I really think these firings are going to hurt Journey sometime in the future. As fans, we may not see karma deal....but I believe it's going to happen in some way, shape or form.

frank wrote:

3) JSS/Augeri firings - while this might not come to fruition.....part of me still thinks that Karma has yet to deal it's blow. I really think these firings are going to hurt Journey sometime in the future. As fans, we may not see karma deal....but I believe it's going to happen in some way, shape or form.

well hopefully the karma will be a solid solo release from jss that gets a spin on the airways. as far as sa, hopefully he will also be putting out a solo cd. that alone, to his fans, will be major karma.

Speaking of the imminent Regurgitations,(I like that Frank) Walmart must be setting the subliminal stage for it. I was in there yesterday to get a cartridge for my printer and other assorted sundries. I was probably in there a total of 20 min during which I heard DSB and Open Arms, sung by Perry of course.

I was quite offended by that. They shouldn't be allowed to use Perry's voice to prepare people to be lured towards this abomination they're going to be peddling as Journey. This is even worse than when the radio ads for the shows with Augeri featured Perry singing the songs. At least they weren't using him to sell a ripoff rerecording of his hits.

I dunno...call them what you will, I've completely lost interest in them. Had no interest really w/SA but JSS renewed it. Now that he's gone so is my desire to hear them anymore...simple as that.

One word....JOKE. I'm sure y'all know how I feel about all this Juhnee shit by now.

Dear Sherrie :

Hey girl, it's me, 02'. You REALLY want to get me fuckin started on this topic ?
When I, ( you asked ) said I was DONE with this cluster-FUCK, I meant it.

I do not deny, the "kid" is singing his ass off, and living his dream. I however, ( speaking for ME only ) cannot, will not, and DO NOT , support this band, in it's present, or FUTURE form. ( you all know this kid's gonna get fucked over too, right ? )

When you slam, hammer, and bash Perry for this long, then fuck over the classiest guy in all of rock and roll, ( Augeri ) , and then HANG OUT TO DRY, and MAIM, a guy like JSS, and then.......
BLATANTLY MOVE ON, as they've so valiantly tried to do, ( without any explanation, thanks Neal ) it's all FUCKING BULLSHIT TO ME.

This old fuckin warhorse, ain't buyin', what the Rock is cookin' , here. I've been around this fucking band, for FAR too long, ( 30 long goddamn years ) to ever consider looking back now. To THINK, this band COULD HAVE, and SHOULD HAVE, easily made the R&RHOF, and then they fuck up the whole mess like this, is simply put, a fucking travesty of the highest.

For YEARS, I've spoken on this goddamn topic, and for YEARS people keep going back, to re-visit it. ( NOT like I'm a fuckin guru or anything, but I DO KNOW THIS BAND PRETTY WELL ) Why, oh Why, just not give it up, and move on to something different ?

Enough is enough. Perry is long gone, and hard to find, ( dammit ! ) ....Augeri is making a comeback with TS, ( good luck, Stevie Boy ! ) and JSS is doing pretty damn well..........ALL after getting royally FUCKED OVER by his royal heiness, teenage heart-throb, guitar wizard NS, who to this day, can't explain HIS involvement in HIS OWN bands' version of "Tapegate" !!!!!

Yeah, right Neal, you didn't have a fuckin clue, right ? Last time I knew, you DAMN SURE knew what a click track was, you sorry ass loser.

Hey, Sherrie, hon, the topic was there for the taking, and I damn sure am gonna let it fly, WITHOUT any more reservation from this fucking cat. ( tribute to my beloved Fla. "cat" inserted here )


I say, let em' hang. Take their 350.00 gold star package, and custom laminate, and shove it right up their candy asses, Neal included.

There's my two cents.

02'....out !

Uh Tom('02),

I don't know what you thought I said, but if I'm reading your post right you must have misread my posts.

I want nothing to do with the band using the Journey name anymore. When I mentioned somebody living their dream I was talking about the possibility of Jeremey getting the job, not Arnel.

I said I would have supported my friend if he got to live his dream. I don't give a shit about Arnel.

Sherrie

No sweetie, I was just bustin' ya.

I got it.

Nice to see you here !
02'

02' wrote:

No sweetie, I was just bustin' ya.

I got it.

Nice to see you here !
02'

Great to see you too. I was really happy to see that 02' nic on the forum list.

Tom!

Welcome to the latest cool forum!

-F

I would like to say this. People ask "Why another forum" which is fine.

My answer: "Why not?"

Frank's forum serves a useful purpose

Mine is disgusting and you should never look at it.

And this one is trying to do something that neither mine or Frank's feels like doing. Being a full blown website.

I think it is ok for me to speak for The Saloon and The Annex as I am part of both to wish ORR the best and keep it up peeps. Thanks for making me feel at home and it is appreciated!

ohsherrie wrote:

Uh Tom('02),

I don't know what you thought I said, but if I'm reading your post right you must have misread my posts.

I want nothing to do with the band using the Journey name anymore. When I mentioned somebody living their dream I was talking about the possibility of Jeremey getting the job, not Arnel.

I said I would have supported my friend if he got to live his dream. I don't give a shit about Arnel.

Sherrie

That's pretty much my sentiments as well Sherrie. I don't have anything against Arnel, but I basically know Jeremey (if not just briefly) and feel he deserved it and would've been much better for the band. But as it stands, I'm just waiting for Jeff's new album!